How many of you good people agree with Saimo Chahai?

And who's she when she's at home?

Well, she is a very successful legal aid lawyer who enjoys the challenge of taking on difficult cases.
Presently she is causing a few ripples in the justice department by demanding the release of Peter Sutcliffe, aka The Yorkshire Ripper.

Apparently Ms Chahai is basing her case on the fact that Sutcliffes rights were violated by the failing of the court to set a tariff, a minimum term when he was sentenced.
She is also of the opinion that he is sane enough to be released

I would hate to think that this evil person could be released on a mere technicality.
This person should in my opinion, remain banged up in Broadmoor for the rest of his life.

Full story here:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/yorkshire-ripper-seeks-release-over-human-rights-breach-827997.html

Jamrie wrote:
How many of you good people agree with Saimo Chahai?

And who's she when she's at home?

Well, she is a very successful legal aid lawyer who enjoys the challenge of taking on difficult cases.
Presently she is causing a few ripples in the justice department by demanding the release of Peter Sutcliffe, aka The Yorkshire Ripper.

Apparently Ms Chahai is basing her case on the fact that Sutcliffes rights were violated by the failing of the court to set a tariff, a minimum term when he was sentenced.
She is also of the opinion that he is sane enough to be released

I would hate to think that this evil person could be released on a mere technicality.
This person should in my opinion, remain banged up in Broadmoor for the rest of his life.

Full story here:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/yorkshire-ripper-seeks-release-over-human-rights-breach-827997.html


<"For Saimo this case raises the issue of how we treat mentally ill people who have committed heinous crimes and she is concerned that there is a huge amount of information in the public domain about this case that is simply untrue." >

These children are not dead then.
I wonder what their poor parents think of that.
This is one way for a Solicitor to make a name for herself but how does she sleep.

If he is now schizophrenic I am fairly sure Westminster adopted or are adopting the same laws as we did to allow people who are a danger to themselves or other to be put in Broadmore or the likes until they are safe. Hopefully the assessment will show he is a danger.

Jamrie wrote:
How many of you good people agree with Saimo Chahai?

And who's she when she's at home?

Well, she is a very successful legal aid lawyer who enjoys the challenge of taking on difficult cases.
Presently she is causing a few ripples in the justice department by demanding the release of Peter Sutcliffe, aka The Yorkshire Ripper.

Apparently Ms Chahai is basing her case on the fact that Sutcliffes rights were violated by the failing of the court to set a tariff, a minimum term when he was sentenced.
She is also of the opinion that he is sane enough to be released

I would hate to think that this evil person could be released on a mere technicality.
This person should in my opinion, remain banged up in Broadmoor for the rest of his life.

Full story here:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/yorkshire-ripper-seeks-release-over-human-rights-breach-827997.html
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/bills/billsPassed/b64s1.pdf

The Mental Health Bill for Scotland

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2007/ukpga_20070012_en_2


Mental Health Act for Westminster unless their is some kind of sympathetic Psychiatrist or judge he may never get out.

Another worrying aspect of this case is that I remember Sutcliffe being sentenced, it seems like only yesterday, in fact it's over 27 years ago.
How time flies.

Jamrie wrote:
How many of you good people agree with Saimo Chahai?

And who's she when she's at home?

Well, she is a very successful legal aid lawyer who enjoys the challenge of taking on difficult cases.
Presently she is causing a few ripples in the justice department by demanding the release of Peter Sutcliffe, aka The Yorkshire Ripper.

Apparently Ms Chahai is basing her case on the fact that Sutcliffes rights were violated by the failing of the court to set a tariff, a minimum term when he was sentenced.
She is also of the opinion that he is sane enough to be released

I would hate to think that this evil person could be released on a mere technicality.
This person should in my opinion, remain banged up in Broadmoor for the rest of his life.

Full story here:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/yorkshire-ripper-seeks-release-over-human-rights-breach-827997.html

She not seeking his release; she's seeking transfer to the prison system and she's also seeking confirmation of what his tariff will be.

He'll not be released. Not now. Not ever.

He'll not be released. Not now. Not ever.

Agreed TLJ. No politician or government would survive if he were released on their shift.

In any case, he would be insane to want to be released. Imagine what life would be like with a pack of newshounds and vigilantes dogging every footstep.

The way that I understand it is,transferring Sutcliffe into the prison system, is the first step towards the process of bringing this case to court, with the view of obtaining his release.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article3932571.ece

Jamrie wrote:
The way that I understand it is,transferring Sutcliffe into the prison system, is the first step towards the process of bringing this case to court, with the view of obtaining his release.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article3932571.ece


I wonder how much this has affected the decision to try

Parole Board breaches human rights of prisoners, Court of Appeal rules
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/parole-board-breaches-human-rights-of-prisoners-court-of-appeal-rules-777233.html

There is some EU directive kicking about which is causing bedlam with cases like this. Some of you may remember last year when the case of Robert Mone was covered and the possibility that he would be released was raised. Mone along with Thomas McCulloch was involved in their now notorious escape from Carstairs many years ago now which left a trail of blood and dead bodies behind them. Prior to those murders Mone had murdered a young school teacher and held her class hostage. Mone's release too is going to be down to his "human" rights and is about challenging the state on sentences which recommend the person convicted shouldn't be released ever. I remember the issue being debated on the Herald threads at the time. I think the whole issue is a very worrying one.

Found this on Google. Its about Mone and McCulloch. It isn't from the Herald tho. I recall in the Herald Mone had written about the school teacher and the detail he recalled was alarming. The letter read as if he was getting pleasure out of his recollections. Anyway, the following is from a nurse who worked in Carstairs who was going to be pleading with the authorities not to release Mone or McCulloch.

Nurse Breaks 30-Year Silence On Carstairs Killings
Dec 21 2007 By Karen Bale

THE NURSE who found the victims of the Carstairs breakout bloodbath has broken his 30-year silence to reveal in graphic detail exactly what happened.

John Hughes, 66, found the horrific scene left by psychotic lovers Robert Mone and Thomas McCulloch.

He spoke out yesterday in a bid to persuade the authorities to keep the evil pair locked up forever.

John revealed how the monsters mutilated their two victims at the state hospital beyond recognition.

They split nurse Neil McLellan's head with an axe, attacking him so viciously that his blood was dripping from the ceiling.

They also peeled off fellow patient Ian Simpson's scalp and left it on a chair.

John has never spoken about his experience - until now. The OAP said: "I was there and saw what these animals did.

These two men are insane, evil, manipulative, psychopathic and devious.

"They fooled psychiatrists, psychologists and senior nurses in 1976 and, mark my words, they will do it again.

"The problem was, everyone thought they could be rehabilitated. But we were all very, very wrong.

"You cannot rehabilitate these people to go back out among human beings. People of their calibre cannot be cured.

"They have not changed. If they we re released tomorrow, they would be pals again the day after and history would repeat itself."

Mone and McCulloch attacked Neil and Simpson with a terrifying arsenal of weapons they made in the hospital, before using a rope ladder to scale the perimeter fence and flee.

But the slaughter didn't stop. The madmen attacked two policemen - killing one - and viciously assaulted two workmen.

Former nurse John yesterday spoke about that awful night on November 30, 1976, after the Record printed letters sent by Mone from behind bars. They give a chilling insight into his twisted mind.

John worked with Mone, now 58, and McCulloch, now 57, for several years before their breakout and was on duty that night.

He revealed how he had last seen colleague Neil with Mone and McCulloch at 5pm. The lovers had been friendly and civil, even raising a smile as they walked off.

Neil was meant to be off duty but had come back to work, so the pair could work on the hospital magazine. He'd collected Simpson from his ward as well.

John remembers the duty charge nurse telling him he was concerned, as he couldn't contact Neil, who was in the administration building.

John, who was a nurse for 30 years, was sent to the block and discovered his pal's body slumped on the floor. He said: "I found Neil and knew in my heart he was dead as soon as I walked in that room.

"I bent over Neil and I didn't recognise him. I felt a drip on the back of my neck and put my hand to my head. It was Neil's blood dripping off the ceiling.

"They had hit him so hard with the axe, his blood had sprayed everywhere. His face was blown up with the pressure of the axe and was smothered in blood and fluid. All I could see was bone.

"The back of his scalp was open wide where they had used a fireman's axe to slice open his head.

"I didn't recognise him. He didn't have his glasses on. They were broken and on the ground. Then I saw the little tin he used to keep his cigarettes he rolled himself.

"They had cut the back of his belt to take his keys and dropped his tin. That was when it hit me."

Horrified John called for help as he stood alone in the room fearing for his own life. He realised the evil pair had stashed their weapons - cleavers and a garden fork - in the office before their breakout bid.

Knives had been taped behind pictures on the wall.

John said: "I'm not going to pretend I was a hero. I was terrified.

"Neil's assistant had gone off to the female block or she would have been slaughtered too. There is no doubt about that in my mind.

"When I phoned the central nursing office, I thought Simpson must be involved in the breakout.

"I told them, Mone, McCulloch and that b*****d Simpson have murdered Neil and escaped."

John realised a small room off the main office was locked and he believed the trio were hiding.

But as he rammed down the door, there was something behind it. It was Simpson's body.

Simpson had already been attacked when Mone speared him with the garden fork. McCulloch had hacked off his ears as a trophy.

John said: "They had really set about him. It was our belief they asked Simpson to join them and he refused, so they killed him. They had scalped him. They had used an axe on his head and his scalp. His hair and skin were lying on top of a chair.

"That's what kind of people they are - that's what we are dealing with."

After their escape, Mone and McCulloch ambushed PC George Taylor, a father of six, and murdered him with an axe. His colleague, John Gillies, was badly wounded but lived.

Workmen Jack McAlroy and William Lennon were also brutally attacked.

McCulloch hit Jack on the head with an axe, while William was stabbed six times byMone. Somehow, they survived.

Before they were finally caught, they terrorised a young family in their own home. John revealed how every family in the village of Carstairs, Lanarkshire, where he still lives, was terrified.

John said: "My wife worked in the hospital as well and that night my daughter begged us, 'Please stop working there'."

John says the monsters had shown no signs of what they were plotting.

He added: "They were both very plausible characters. They would never get into conflict with nursing staff.

"If you chastised them, they would apologise and back away. But they could manipulate people very easily."

He went on: "They had been given a lot of freedom. They were being rehabilitated for the outside world.

"But, in actual fact, they led psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, nursing staff and therapists down the garden path. They conned everybody into believing they were on the mend.

"I now believe they had been plotting their escape for 18 months or two years.

"They were in a psychotic relationship and fed off each other.

"They were trying to outdo each other making weapons. They used guitar strings like cheesecutters to choke a potential victim. They collected staff uniforms and carved knives from wood and metal."

Mone had been sent to Carstairs after blasting pregnant teacher Nanette Hanson to death and holding her class hostage at his old school in Dundee.

Mone raped one of the children and molested another during the 1967 siege.

After their escape, Mone and McCulloch were jailed for life.

Mone is now training for freedomafter 38 years. It's also fearedMcCulloch could be freed soon after being allowed to leave prison on supervised day trips.

But we printedMone's letters - written during a violence reduction workshop in Shotts prison - to prove the monster is still mentally ill.

In them, he blames McCulloch for the Carstairs breakout murders.

He shows no remorse for his crimes and boasts 540 people were left traumatised by them. He even awards his victims points to measure their anguish.

John says Mone and McCulloch slipped through the net and begged the authorities to take a lesson from history.

John said: "Mone is still feeding off the past. He remembers every tiny detail of that day. He gets pleasure from it.

"I haven't forgotten that day because I was left traumatised. But Mone and McCulloch are like a couple of vultures feeding off the carcass of 1976. They will never change, ever."

'You cannot rehabilitate these people to go back among human beings. People like them cannot be cured'

Jamrie wrote:
The way that I understand it is,transferring Sutcliffe into the prison system, is the first step towards the process of bringing this case to court, with the view of obtaining his release.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article3932571.ece

More info on the case that Clare found Mone and McCulloch
http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/newsfeed/2007/12/30/carstairs-killer-s-postcard-from-hell-78057-20269087/

This link mentions the fact that Sutcliffe has no tarrif set for him but does not confirm that the secretary of state for justice has the same powers as a Scottish Minister to overrule a court ruling.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article759322.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article3932571.ece

I think all this "progress" on the rights of prisoners, especially dangerous ones, really makes one wonder about our own right to live within communities where we can feel safe and secure.

I remember the Carstairs murders very well as obviously the newspapers and tv news programmes were dominated by what had happened. I still can't pass Carstairs on the train south without recalling Mone in particular. It still makes me shudder. I can still recall the picture carried by the media of Mone and those eyes of his.

Sometimes it is right to put people away and never let them out again and I would say Mone is one, so is his accomplice McCulloch and so is Sutcliffe. I don't think you can legislate to cover for the "human rights" of people like that and I believe individual countries cannot allow the EU to start dictating in such a general way regarding such people. Perhaps what we need to do in Scotland as a country is overhaul the entire Criminal Justice system when it comes to sentencing policy. If they want categories, lets give them categories. I realise there is a huge issue just now with accommodation for prisoners but I understand that several new prisons are under construction too. So it might be a good time for Kenny McAskill to make a few announcements in the meantime and start consulting on how we, the people, want our Criminal Justice system to work. Starting with clear sentences for murder and other violent crimes.

Clare wrote:
I don't think you can legislate to cover for the "human rights" of people like that and I believe individual countries cannot allow the EU to start dictating in such a general way regarding such people.

I'd like to know how the EU is dictating how we act in relation to our prisoners......