InfrequentAllele wrote:
Your friend David sounds like some gay friends of mine who are convinced that the difference between a straight man and a bisexual is approximately 6 pints of beer.

I don't agree with that theory.

It's more like 9 pints and a couple of vodkas.

IA, whatever floats yer boat, but there's no amount of alcohol...

Clare wrote:
"As well as just about anything related to Scotland and Scottish politics, being gay I'm also very interested in lesbian and gay issues. I'm always happy to answer anyone's honest questions about gay issues. (I don't bite - not unless A. you ask nicely, and B. you're kinda cute.)"

Hi Allele

I have an honest question. I'm heterosexual and I'd like to know why so many gay people seem to want to make that an issue themselves. For instance I don't introduce myself and mention my sexual preferences. I don't generally tend to have gay issues either just like I never meet people with heterosexual issues. I have gay friends I've been honest with about this and said to them, if all you're after is not to be treated differently then why make such a big deal about it yourself?

Welcome to Scotsgait.
I have some honest questions Clare. Why do you have a problem with people mentioning that they are gay? Why shouldn't they mention it? If you have no gay issues then why do you even notice them mentioning it? If AI had posted a description of his appearance and had mentioned his eye colour would you have asked him why he mentioned his eye colour? Also, how do you know that gay and lesbian people are often mentioning their sexuality? Maybe you know lots of them and they don't ever mention it. You probably just assume that they are heterosexual. I think that is an important point. We do assume that people are heterosexual unless we know otherwise.

Meg wrote:
If AI
Apologies IA for transposing the letters. I am terrible for doing this when I type and usually remember to check before I post. It did make me think though, do you mind your name being shortened to IA? I'm just a lazy so and so who can't be bothered typing the full thing but I will if you'd prefer.

Meg

Go back to the first post when we were told to ask any questions we had. I do not have "a problem" ok?

I don't meet new people and immediately announce I'm heterosexual. It isn't an issue for me. I asked a question. I got a lecture in response and was then told the subject was closed as I'd "missed the point". I did not. The point was ignored. Alelle said he didn't want his sexual orientation to dominate here yet just look at the thread so far. Why is it such an issue? That's all I asked. Aren't we all people regardless of the different sides to us which make us who we are? I also pointed out the irony of a group that claims too much is made of their sexual orientation and how they want to blend in un-noticed yet seem unable to address any subject without dragging their particular orientation into the discussion. So I don't "have a problem". I contributed a view which I think is permitted. If you disagree I don't have an issue with that either but don't start implying that I'm homophobic because I'm not. As I have said elsewhere on this subject today it is a great pity that for being honest about something I am now being called "prejudiced" so I guess the homophobe word is next eh? So I'm just making it clear right now, it doesn't apply.

Clare - I showed your posts to a number of gay friends, and guess what - every single one of them agreed that you're a homophobe. There, I've called you a homophobe, are you happy now?

You are clearly homophobic, and like most homophobes you are in denial about your own condition. The shocking lack of self-awareness you display is one of the reasons why homophobia is classified as a mental illness. It's called cognitive dissonance, and you've got it in spades.

I'm very glad you identified yourself at the outset, so I can now proceed to ignore you. I won't be dignifying any more of your prejudiced rants with a reply.

IA / AI / or "that specky baldy git" all work for me Meg.

InfrequentAllele wrote:
Hi Maria, I dunno why women keep pursuing you. Maybe you're just irrestistible to lesbians?

Your friend David sounds like some gay friends of mine who are convinced that the difference between a straight man and a bisexual is approximately 6 pints of beer.

I don't agree with that theory.

It's more like 9 pints and a couple of vodkas.

No sweety that is not what I meant...What I meant is even though I tell them I like men and will not ever in this lifetime change my mind...They still insist that I will change my mind....or that I don't know that I'm one already....

I'm conceited sweetheart...I know my value...but I'm not gods gift to women....

InfrequentAllele wrote:
Clare - I showed your posts to a number of gay friends, and guess what - every single one of them agreed that you're a homophobe. There, I've called you a homophobe, are you happy now?

You are clearly homophobic, and like most homophobes you are in denial about your own condition. The shocking lack of self-awareness you display is one of the reasons why homophobia is classified as a mental illness. It's called cognitive dissonance, and you've got it in spades.

I'm very glad you identified yourself at the outset, so I can now proceed to ignore you. I won't be dignifying any more of your prejudiced rants with a reply.

IA / AI / or "that specky baldy git" all work for me Meg.

I deeply resent your accusation as you are wrong. Can I say in response that people like you typify the sort of gay person who gets many of you little sympathy. You are obsessed with your own label and you do not tolerate anyone who does not agree with you. What you have called me is insulting and grossly offensive but worst of all it is untrue. I have male gay friends too who happen to agree with many of my views when it comes to the aggressive campaigning conducted by many groups representing the interests of the gay community. They agree the aggression has actually increased hostility towards them and helped create the feeling that the gay lobby has a disproporionate influence at every level politically because many politicians are afraid to be labelled with the homophobe word.

Your attack on me below is what I would consider libellous actually. I would repeat, I am no homophobe and I am certainly not mentally ill. Your attack on me is an absolute disgrace.

InfrequentAllele wrote:
Clare - I showed your posts to a number of gay friends, and guess what - every single one of them agreed that you're a homophobe. There, I've called you a homophobe, are you happy now?

You are clearly homophobic, and like most homophobes you are in denial about your own condition. The shocking lack of self-awareness you display is one of the reasons why homophobia is classified as a mental illness. It's called cognitive dissonance, and you've got it in spades.

I'm very glad you identified yourself at the outset, so I can now proceed to ignore you. I won't be dignifying any more of your prejudiced rants with a reply.

IA / AI / or "that specky baldy git" all work for me Meg.

The current political trend of calling every person prejudiced against a particular group whether they be gay an ethnic minority or disabled or a woman or an immigrant or whatever, when they disagree with them, is the result of an overly politically correct country that we live in.

I believe in equality for all but I do not believe in over equality for some groups.

I am disabled, have gay friends and in my family. If any person in any one of these groups were treated unfairly I would be the first person out there with a banner supporting there cause. As a person I reserve the right to disagree with them and also to dislike them no matter their sexual orientation or their nationality but then I am just a fair person and not very politically correct.

For instance, I would not allow someone to put me before them in a cue because I am disabled.

Maria - Maybe your lesbian friends just can't take no for an answer. You'll have to ask them why that is. But I am still sure it must be because you're irresistibly gorgeous.

Lydia - I don't call someone a homophobe simply because I disagree with them. I answered Clare's first question respectfully and politely even though as soon as she posed the question I recognised the homophobic sentiments which lay behind it. I was equally respectful in answering her follow up post, even though I declined to continue discussing the matter with her.

You and I are disagreeing about many things on another thread, but both of us are expressing ourselves in moderate language. We're able to have a reasoned exchange. I do not find that is possible with Clare. I don't call her a homophobe because of her religion either, my parents and sisters are practising Catholics and they're not homophobic. I know many Christians of various denominations who are not homophobes, and I've encountered quite a few homophobic atheists.

I do not lightly call anyone a homophobe. Calling a person a homophobe has much the same effect as calling a person a liar, it immediately shuts down debate and dialogue. I only called Clare a homophobe after I had come to the conclusion that further exchanges with her would be futile. Her reaction was entirely predictable.

InfrequentAllele wrote:
Maria - Maybe your lesbian friends just can't take no for an answer. You'll have to ask them why that is. But I am still sure it must be because you're irresistibly gorgeous.

Lydia - I don't call someone a homophobe simply because I disagree with them. I answered Clare's first question respectfully and politely even though as soon as she posed the question I recognised the homophobic sentiments which lay behind it. I was equally respectful in answering her follow up post, even though I declined to continue discussing the matter with her.

You and I are disagreeing about many things on another thread, but both of us are expressing ourselves in moderate language. We're able to have a reasoned exchange. I do not find that is possible with Clare. I don't call her a homophobe because of her religion either, my parents and sisters are practising Catholics and they're not homophobic. I know many Christians of various denominations who are not homophobes, and I've encountered quite a few homophobic atheists.

I do not lightly call anyone a homophobe. Calling a person a homophobe has much the same effect as calling a person a liar, it immediately shuts down debate and dialogue. I only called Clare a homophobe after I had come to the conclusion that further exchanges with her would be futile. Her reaction was entirely predictable.

You are wrong and your post in that respect regarding me was libellous, defamatory and outrageous. I am actually considering seeking legal advice on it. Your conduct has been deplorable. You immediately went on the defensive because I asked a question you did not like and then sought to close the discussion.
I have not attacked homosexuals at any time, never, and your use of the word homophobe in my case is completely inappropriate. The additional allegations made that I suffer from a mental illness were utterly disgraceful and do not belong on a public forum. You clearly think you can say what you like about people, their characters, and everything else without knowing anything about them. Your attack on me, I repeat, was libellous and defamatory and is not acceptable to me. It should not be acceptable to anyone on this forum incidentally.

Your tactics are precisely why so many fear expressing a view that is different from yours. I know many people in the gay community who deplore such tactics who believe you are doing great damage. There are people who are gay who are not open about that and that is their decision yet on many occasions people in powerful places have been threatened with being "outed" by the gay lobby unless they back this, or that or the next thing. That is blackmail yet some in the gay lobby will stoop to such tactics in order to further what they see as their "cause". There are many issues in there which I am more than happy to discuss where you and I will not agree but to respond as you have with libellous attacks is just not on.

My English friend's son and his male partner visit me here and are always made welcome as guests on the occasions when they visit Scotland. I have visited them in Watford and stayed with them and I love them both dearly. I have other gay friends in my circle too. I am NOT a homophobe and you should withdraw your despicable comments from your earlier post which frankly you should be ashamed of. Friends of mine who are gay are capable of doing what most reasonable gay people wish to do and that is blend in without wanting special treatment and status nor do they keep banging on about their sexual orientation. It isn't an issue for them or for me either. I repeat, your attack on my character was outrageous and wrong and you had no right to say the things you have said when they are completely untrue.

Clare - I am not impressed by your self-pitying attempts to defend yourself. I stand by my comments. Your threat of legal action is frankly laughable.

What I said was that homophobia is classified as a mental illness. One of its symptoms is cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance refers to the inability of the patient to recognise that they have a problem. You are incapable of recognising your own homophobia. That is cognitive dissonance. Stamping your wee foot and yelling that you're not a homophobe doesn't magically make all your following comments non-homophobic.

Only the most extreme forms of homophobia are classified as a mental disorder and in order to receive a diagnosis, the person must display certain other symptoms as well. You've only displayed one of the symptoms - so far. So I wouldn't say you were insane, you're just not very bright and rather immature.

I said before that I would not respond to you again. This is my last comment addressed to you. Please refrain from addressing me in future.

InfrequentAllele wrote:
Clare - I am not impressed by your self-pitying attempts to defend yourself. I stand by my comments. Your threat of legal action is frankly laughable.

What I said was that homophobia is classified as a mental illness. One of its symptoms is cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance refers to the inability of the patient to recognise that they have a problem. You are incapable of recognising your own homophobia. That is cognitive dissonance. Stamping your wee foot and yelling that you're not a homophobe doesn't magically make all your following comments non-homophobic.

Only the most extreme forms of homophobia are classified as a mental disorder and in order to receive a diagnosis, the person must display certain other symptoms as well. You've only displayed one of the symptoms - so far. So I wouldn't say you were insane, you're just not very bright and rather immature.

I said before that I would not respond to you again. This is my last comment addressed to you. Please refrain from addressing me in future.

Can I just say that you are the one in denial. Homophobe, a word you throw at anyone you disagree with, a word intended to damage another person's reputation and for what, for daring to ask you a question you didn't want to deal with. Go and check out the definition because I don't meet the criteria whereas you, you more than meet the criteria of everything that is twisted and dishonest about the gay lobby. I will not be bullied by you and your conduct via your attack on me is quite disgraceful. Grow up!

Clare....I am gorgeous...I believe I am... and that is all that matters.