You are quite right Lydia, unfortunately it seems that the World is no longer a compassionate place.
A quick glance at some at of the papers regarding this story will show you that those who care about the plight of others are in the minority.
Instead of concentrating on finding Maddie, it seems that the tables have turned into blame the parent’s fest.

Everyone knows that it was the parents fault, but why go around pointing fingers.
If a child drowns in a paddling pool, do you rush up and blame the parents because they took their eyes of the child for a minute?
If a child dashes out in front of a car and is seriously injured whilst the parents are window shopping. Do you tell the police that the parent momentarily neglected it?
I for one certainly don’t.

Parenting is never easy, and bringing them up is a constant worry. I’ve done my best, but I know that I have made many, many mistakes; mistakes that still make me cringe just thinking about it. Just like Lev, I am also guilty of leaving pills where my kids could have mistaken them for sweets. It’s enough to make you come out in a sweat, you constantly say “what if”?
No matter how good your intentions are, mistakes are bound to happen, and some parents will pay the ultimate price just as the McCann’s are doing.
But I will not blame Kate and Gerry McCann, I’m sure that the blame that they are attaching to themselves is more than enough.

Jamrie the comparisons you make here are frankly ludicrous. This case simply isn't like a child drowning in a swimming pool because a parent looks away for a couple of minutes nor is it like a child running out in the road while a parent's attention is distracted. It was about parents going out for dinner and leaving three children all under three ON THEIR OWN! GOT THAT? The example you quote from Lev isn't comparable either so please will you try and focus on the real point being made?

My compassion is for Madeleine and as I stated earlier I think many more people would indeed have more compassion for her parents if they weren't still coming out with quotes like the one yesterday about how they have only "coped" with the last year "by not blaming each other."

And I would repeat Jamrie, that the McCann's didn't pay the ultimate price, Madeleine did.

The examples I gave, no matter how ludicrous you find them were just to show that in both the cases the parents are to blame, but no one is actually pointing a finger.

In the McCann's case as I have already mentioned, everyone knows that it was their fault, they also know that it was their fault, yet still there is this relentless McCann bashing and finger pointing.
Yes we know, and they also know that they are guilty of leaving three children on their own, (you don't have to shout) but what is the point of mentioning it in every post other than to run down the McCanns.

Yes I still have a great deal of compassion for the parents, but naturally my main concern is that their daughters well-being, and I pray that she will be found soon.

Jamrie wrote:
The examples I gave, no matter how ludicrous you find them were just to show that in both the cases the parents are to blame, but no one is actually pointing a finger.

In the McCann's case as I have already mentioned, everyone knows that it was their fault, they also know that it was their fault, yet still there is this relentless McCann bashing and finger pointing.
Yes we know, and they also know that they are guilty of leaving three children on their own, (you don't have to shout) but what is the point of mentioning it in every post other than to run down the McCanns.

Yes I still have a great deal of compassion for the parents, but naturally my main concern is that their daughters well-being, and I pray that she will be found soon.

NO Jamrie, in the examples you gave the parents were THERE, and in those situations a child can move in seconds into danger. They are entirely different situations from parents going OUT and LEAVING three children under four ALONE which is what the McCann's did. Why can you not see the difference? For the difference is huge.

And I wasn't shouting, I was just trying to emphasise the root of all of it Jamrie. If they hadn't left those children alone Maddie wouldn't have been taken. And I will say again, it made me want to throw up reading their quote in yesterday's paper that they have coped by not "blaming each other". So you see Jamrie, they don't accept they're to blame, that quote yesterday proves it.

Clare wrote:
Jamrie wrote:
The examples I gave, no matter how ludicrous you find them were just to show that in both the cases the parents are to blame, but no one is actually pointing a finger.

In the McCann's case as I have already mentioned, everyone knows that it was their fault, they also know that it was their fault, yet still there is this relentless McCann bashing and finger pointing.
Yes we know, and they also know that they are guilty of leaving three children on their own, (you don't have to shout) but what is the point of mentioning it in every post other than to run down the McCanns.

Yes I still have a great deal of compassion for the parents, but naturally my main concern is that their daughters well-being, and I pray that she will be found soon.

NO Jamrie, in the examples you gave the parents were THERE, and in those situations a child can move in seconds into danger. They are entirely different situations from parents going OUT and LEAVING three children under four ALONE which is what the McCann's did. Why can you not see the difference? For the difference is huge.

And I wasn't shouting, I was just trying to emphasise the root of all of it Jamrie. If they hadn't left those children alone Maddie wouldn't have been taken. And I will say again, it made me want to throw up reading their quote in yesterday's paper that they have coped by not "blaming each other". So you see Jamrie, they don't accept they're to blame, that quote yesterday proves it.

I believe you said it yourself Claire they are not blaming each other that does not mean they are not blaming themselves and how are we to know what thoughts they have privately

That is I imagine a way of supporting each other.

Jamrie wrote:
You are quite right Lydia, unfortunately it seems that the World is no longer a compassionate place.
A quick glance at some at of the papers regarding this story will show you that those who care about the plight of others are in the minority.
Instead of concentrating on finding Maddie, it seems that the tables have turned into blame the parent’s fest.

Everyone knows that it was the parents fault, but why go around pointing fingers.
If a child drowns in a paddling pool, do you rush up and blame the parents because they took their eyes of the child for a minute?
If a child dashes out in front of a car and is seriously injured whilst the parents are window shopping. Do you tell the police that the parent momentarily neglected it?
I for one certainly don’t.

Parenting is never easy, and bringing them up is a constant worry. I’ve done my best, but I know that I have made many, many mistakes; mistakes that still make me cringe just thinking about it. Just like Lev, I am also guilty of leaving pills where my kids could have mistaken them for sweets. It’s enough to make you come out in a sweat, you constantly say “what if”?
No matter how good your intentions are, mistakes are bound to happen, and some parents will pay the ultimate price just as the McCann’s are doing.
But I will not blame Kate and Gerry McCann, I’m sure that the blame that they are attaching to themselves is more than enough.

You think as I do, I know I set out to be the best parent in the whole world nothing was as important as my children. I read all the books I could find and asked every question I could think of when trying to decide how to....Like every other parent I know I did stupid unthinking things made wrong choices and cringe when I look back at my ignorance and naivety. As a grandmother I hope I have learned some of these lessons and can pass them on but we really will never know if we have given our best until our children and grandchildren are dead because all the lessons we have taught them will impact on the way they deal with generations to come.

That is life and you deal with it by simply doing your very best, and if you do things wrong you try your best to correct it. When other people do wrong you tell them and leave it at that as they do with you hopefully, another way of learning.

Tonight I was reminded of a graduation that will never be.
My dear wee cousin whom I cherished. He should be up there with his 2 cousins ... together as the trio that they once were growin up... He missed his cousin's prom queen the other night... or ..we missed him. I have a soldier boy..who is going to stand up for him in his honor.... my 'other' child who is graduating with my cousins...

When my wee cousin was three yrs.. he got very ill.. his parents believed it to be the flu.. my auntie was torn between a long trip to be with family for Christmas or to stay home with the pukies and poop shoots. It was to be an important trip.. that all the family would be together.. and so hubby offered to stay home and she could go on and take baby tot with her... When we all got wind of him how sick he was... there was a buzz... My auntie phoned home to check up on him.. and he had a turn for the worst.. his daddie took him in to the hospital... She was sick in the heart.. you could see it in her posture and eyes.. My unc.. offered to drive her home.. my ma told me to go with them to look after her baby... Four hours we drove through the night to reach home.. I stayed in my cousin's bed with the baby in the crib.. Later that night.. bout 3 in the morn... BLOOD CURLING cries... came brashening into my sleep... a cry i will never forget. a cry that frightens yer heart. not a panic.. a death cry. like...a gutteral shriek... LORD... WHY, OH WHY DID YOU NOT TAKE ME FIRST!!!!???!!!! TAKE ME INSTEAD!!!!!! ITS NOT MY BABY'S TIME...!!!!TAKE ME!!!!???!!! She came into the room... in the dark with the light of the doorway.. and grasped my baby cousin out of his slumber.. and held him.. and ached.. and just held him whispering in an aching agony... that his brother loved him so..(tears) it hurt me so bad to watch this.. i knew that something was not right at all... never in our minds did we THINK that he would pass away. She just clutched him in agony and tried to come to grips with her loss.. did i mention that she was over five months pregnant? So much. loss. Do you think that she did not blame herself for leaving.. oh, baby... we were just trying to keep her alive... and the baby! The loss is more than you can imagine. The holidays.. the house... they eventually moved when they had the money... years, and years later... He was such a precious child... and VERY loved. Telling you this is breaking my heart to bits... but it must be said. for you to know the pain of a grieving mother.. in the best that i can even explain it.. a mother whom blames herself every day. She will be attending that graduation.. and i dont even know if I HAVE THE STRENGTH to watch her pain and what she is dealing with. Time goes on.. but we must cope the best we can with what life throws at us.
She grasped her baby.. as if.. she would lose him too!!!! And just circled the room... in a weak agony. we stayed up all night in tears. and the family finally received word and drove overnight and was home in the morning.. and one by one..(over 50 loved ones..) filed in her tiny home... and grasped her and we all grieved together. And the grief is still there. The small white grave... the christmass of the future.. i always end up there...crying at his stone... that he still loved and remembered even after over 15 years. You never forget.

My auntie had to be drugged just so she could get through the days.. of raising her child and working to the best of her ability... and finally her baby was born.. healthy.. and...she cherishes her babies like no tomorrow... and i do to.

but yet.. we all still make mistakes. we do the best we can. There are over 1000 ways we can end up screwing up each day.. and 1000 ways that they test us too! Just today i lost 2 kids in a matter of seconds.. ready to put an missing child report immediately.. heart skipping beats.. palpatations... one of the older kids had left the back door hanging open.. and i could have sworn baby had slipped out.. but.. then i forgot he went up the stairs to get his sippie cup.. i was all over the place like a mad hen trying to find his little body!!! i live by a highway! i had 5 kids searching.. everyone frantic.. and here he comes.. out the door with his little sippie..
then.. later on.. it was the 3 year old.. she was playing outside for just a few minutes.. and i was on the side of the house facing her playground digging up a hole with all the kids in view.. and somehow she slipped my radar.. and we are on panic mode YET AGAIN!!! palpatations.... blaming myself.. we were scanning the yard.. and thank the goodness i have children everywhere.. where.. we can cover the grounds quickly!! she comes mosing out of the house........she had to go pottie.(where is my duh sign..?) Millions of ways.. and yet you STILL have to carry on and do your chores and sleep.. and cook... there are millions of ways each day. I WAS RIGHT THERE WITH HER. I still have to carry on the day.. and get things done.. and..all the while.. she wants to do HER thing.. but, THANK GOD, she didnt leave the yard.. and THANK GOD.. my kids are safe and we got through another day.
Heaven help me, i dont know how i do it sometimes!!!!!!!!

Just telling you of my kids today.. is getting the palpatations going again. Lord, i need a fence. But then again.. i might get too comfortable. I caint tell you.. two days in a row.. and i needed a aspirin by the end of the day.. but by golly, i love them to pieces!!!

The blame game.. Honestly.. i cannot imagine the pain that the McCanns feel towards each other over their daughter, but im sure.. that.. to keep the peace in the home front.. for the sake of the children they DO have.. and to keep their marriage intact EACH DAY.. they probably DO need to swallow the anger each day..and some days more than others.. and just forgive. Because that is all you really CAN do.. besides killing eachother with hateful thoughts and ill will...its not a healthy approach at all. I wouldnt suggest blaming either. Blaming is just like worry. Jesus said.. you cannot add one more hour to your day by worrying..its moot. (in so many words) And he said.. to forgive our brothers seventy times seven.. even when they wrong you over and over... he forgave the prostitute.. 'if one of you are free from sin... you cast the first stone..' and not one of them were.. and they walked away. We all make mistakes.. we all sin.. he said that 'hate is just as bad as murder'... he forgave the murderer.. on the cross.. right before he passed.. he forgave him.

to forgive..

he asked us...(Matthew 25(the sheep and the goats))to feed the hungery.. to give drink to the thirsty.. to clothe the naked.. to take care of the sick.. and to visit the imprisoned. and if we did this.. we did it to him. that is one of the first things i learned about Jesus by my grandfather.. grandpa seeked the questionable..the 'unworthy'...the ones that no one would give the time of day.. out of passion for his Jesus! Jesus taught us the beauty of love for one another..not just our family members and friends(because what reward would you get with people who already love you?).. but the most undesirable the broken.. Please.. i beg you... have mercy on them. Let Jesus be the judge of this. For.. its not for our understanding..

and.. thats another reason why i think we need to clean out our prisons and start anew.

Jaimekens, again I have to say that I love the way you write about your children and the children of others. That last post was beautiful.

I read all that you wrote and I do understand what you are saying, really I do. Your aunt left her baby with someone however, someone was caring for that baby while she was gone. We all know of tragedies that have occurred while parents were with their babies, their children because such things do happen. I know that too. So again, I'm going to say it. The McCann's were not with their children, theirs were alone and defenceless and that is why, for me, it is a completely different situation. I will never be able to see that situation any other way. I do know they will never lose the pain of it and I realise that too but when children are as small as that all they have to look out for them is a mum and a dad or another responsible adult because being alone means there is little they can do to stop bad stuff happening. Those children were alone. What chance did Maddie have? None.

Guys, I'm getting very uncomfortable with this McCann bashing. Let's all agree that what they did was wrong, whether a mistake or carelessness or worse and Madeline paid the price. They are also paying a heavy price in grief and worry and we'll agree to differ on whether they deserve it or not. Personally, I would prefer to let God, who knows the facts and has not formed his opinion via the press, judge them.

Can we move on now............ please!

Martin I'm fine with that with the exception of one thing. No one ever debated "whether or not they deserve it". No one ever said they did deserve it.

Martin wrote:
Guys, I'm getting very uncomfortable with this McCann bashing. Let's all agree that what they did was wrong, whether a mistake or carelessness or worse and Madeline paid the price. They are also paying a heavy price in grief and worry and we'll agree to differ on whether they deserve it or not. Personally, I would prefer to let God, who knows the facts and has not formed his opinion via the press, judge them.

Can we move on now............ please!

I agree we could all agree to disagree

Clare wrote:

Lydia,I have thought long and hard about the McCann's part in all of this and I will never change my view.

If a poster to Scotsgait is not prepared to change their view based on the discussion, then what is the point of the discussion?

Robin T Cox wrote:
Clare wrote:

Lydia,I have thought long and hard about the McCann's part in all of this and I will never change my view.

If a poster to Scotsgait is not prepared to change their view based on the discussion, then what is the point of the discussion?

I think what we are saying is that through all the discussion we have all sometimes disagreed and sometimes not but your view that the McCanns were totally to blame has not moved. To be honest I think you are entitled to that view but likewise I cannot change mine so when a discussion gets to that point you are not left with much alternative but to say ok you think this, I think that, and so we must agree to disagree.

Mostly because I cannot think of anything else to say that would change your mind, and I know that I won't change mine, and cannot think of anything more to say to you to convince you of my point of view.

I could of course stamp my foot and go to bed in a huff but it hurts a lot when I do that so lets not fall out my feet hurt a lot today, and I still have some letters to write.

Robin T Cox wrote:
Clare wrote:

Lydia,I have thought long and hard about the McCann's part in all of this and I will never change my view.

If a poster to Scotsgait is not prepared to change their view based on the discussion, then what is the point of the discussion?

Robin, I have not changed my view because the circumstances of this case will never change either. These parents went out and left their children alone. Those children were aged three and under. It was irresponsible of them and it was also gross neglect.

Based on the discussion how has anything changed? I have heard people go from "It could happen to any of us." to "They will always suffer for the rest of their lives." What about Maddie? The truth is it couldn't happen to anyone. Most parents would not dreamof doing what the McCann's did. Others have given examples of children drowning or being run over while with their parents as a way of saying those parents are just like the McCann's. They simply aren't. The McCann's left their children in an unlocked apartment and went out. That is what the McCann's did. You simply do NOT do that to three children of three and under. Their daughter was snatched, taken, abducted and still no one can find her. And now a year later they are telling us they cope by not blaming each other. I just don't get that Robin. I don't think they should each blame the other, I say they are both responsible. Unfortunate, terrible and tragic accidents happen to children, yes. This one, this tragedy, it should just never have happened in the first place. No one should ever have been in a position to go into that apartment and just take a child.

I quite often change my mind during debates. It happens. I am saying on this issue I will not, I cannot. My sympathies are with the wee lassie who said "Why did you not come when we were crying last night?" Whether that was a nightmare or not, she said it for a reason, and it still didn't make her parents stay home that night or take their kids with them. Maddie paid the price.

Oh and by the way, I never thought that I would get hell kicked out of my karma for saying that parents shouldn't leave small children alone. Wow! Ah well, never mind. I'll live.