blind neep wrote:
The problem I have with the whole EU caper is that I seem to have less and less say in what I'm allowed to do.
I remeber in the sixties when we wanted to join the Common Market (as it was called then) and France said Non! but it never stopped us from trading with all these other countries.
As I remeber, it was to allow easier trade between countrties but I don't see that has happened. For instance, we're all supposed to have freedom of access to all member states facilities, ie we're supposed to be able to work anywhere withinn the EU ...Try it!...

We do.

We're supposed to have the same duty free allowance? .... try it....
and that's just the first two that spring to mind.

Duty free doesn't exist in the EU now.

I've been against the EU ever since they decided to have a European Parliament.
When did they ask for my opinion on that or ask me to vote on whether I wanted a new layer of Government?


The European Parliament is not a "layer of Government". In its original form, it was unelected and only became democratically elected in 1979. Unlike other parliaments, it doesn't form a government - instead, its role is to scrutinise the legislative proposals being put forward. However, until recently, it had little power to block these proposals although that has increased in recent years and would have increased further through Lisbon. Given that it is the only directly elected institution and it challenges the Commission and the Council of Ministers (ie the Heads of Govt from the member states), it's one which I would have thought that people would have welcomed as a balancing tool against the power that Europhobes are constantly complaining about.

It was imposed on me.

Our Government imposes things on us without asking all the time. It's the consequence of representative democracy.

Of course, the Treaty provided a formal route out of the EU - something which doesn't exist at the moment. So, to some extent, the "No" voters are acting like turkeys voting for Christmas


I agree that we're being dictated to. It seems that no matter what we vote for, it'll be shuffled around until it suits whoever's trying to push it.I read the other day that Mugabe's troops are forcing people to re-vote cos they voted " the wrong way".
Different tactics to Brussels but with the same outcome....????

And your solution is ? As I said before, the UK won't be leaving the EU in the foreseeable future (even under Cameron) and the status quo is untenable.


In 1939 we went to war with Germany cos they wanted a United Europe under their control.

Hmmm. What do we have now?
A United Europe controlled by the Bundesbank........

Absolute bollocks. The Bundesbank doesn't control monetary policy in the EU - and its previous power has been diminished substantially since the introduction of the Euro which is controlled through the European Central Bank.

T, I understand your enthusiasm for the EU, I'm pro-Europe myself, but not at all costs.

They have a serious image problem and until they address that I'm not prepared to give them any more powers, and especially NOT powers to challenge or even over-rule legislation passed by individual countries.

A strong Europe is a good thing for all of us and by being strong individual countries the EU will be a strong body indeed. A United States of Europe isn't what this was meant to bring about and that is looking increasingly like the end result wanted by the EC. So its about power. So,on that score, I'm not budging.

They need to clean up their act, particularly on the financial bit because the allegations of fraud within the EU are considerable. It is looking like a massive gravy train for certain MEPs who aren't even asked to provide receipts. We're funding that! Until they behave like a serious outfit I will not take them seriously myself. They don't deserve it.

Clare wrote:
T, I understand your enthusiasm for the EU, I'm pro-Europe myself, but not at all costs.

They have a serious image problem and until they address that I'm not prepared to give them any more powers, and especially NOT powers to challenge or even over-rule legislation passed by individual countries.

A strong Europe is a good thing for all of us and by being strong individual countries the EU will be a strong body indeed. A United States of Europe isn't what this was meant to bring about and that is looking increasingly like the end result wanted by the EC. So its about power. So,on that score, I'm not budging.

They need to clean up their act, particularly on the financial bit because the allegations of fraud within the EU are considerable. It is looking like a massive gravy train for certain MEPs who aren't even asked to provide receipts. We're funding that! Until they behave like a serious outfit I will not take them seriously myself. They don't deserve it.

It's not perfect, Clare, not by any means - but Lisbon would have helped.

TLJ wrote:
Clare wrote:
T, I understand your enthusiasm for the EU, I'm pro-Europe myself, but not at all costs.

They have a serious image problem and until they address that I'm not prepared to give them any more powers, and especially NOT powers to challenge or even over-rule legislation passed by individual countries.

A strong Europe is a good thing for all of us and by being strong individual countries the EU will be a strong body indeed. A United States of Europe isn't what this was meant to bring about and that is looking increasingly like the end result wanted by the EC. So its about power. So,on that score, I'm not budging.

They need to clean up their act, particularly on the financial bit because the allegations of fraud within the EU are considerable. It is looking like a massive gravy train for certain MEPs who aren't even asked to provide receipts. We're funding that! Until they behave like a serious outfit I will not take them seriously myself. They don't deserve it.

It's not perfect, Clare, not by any means - but Lisbon would have helped.

No TLJ, Lisbon would have given them too much power before they cleaned up their act. I think it was too risky. Really.

www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=173

This is a video which is worth watching right through its 1hr 22minutes. Its about the Irish 'NO' Vote and it completely exposes the lies and treason of our Prime minister and our MEPs and advisors. Please distribute this widely and then let us all get together to DEMAND A REFERENDUM on the Lisbon Trea(son)ty.

Section 3 at about 14 minutes is a must about the EU Court of Justice and how our civil and legal rights will be abolished. There will be no Habeas Corpus and everything I warned about in my article on Corpus Juris will come to pass. The European movement MUST be opposed at all costs.

'S Mise le meas
Niall.

Niall Ban wrote:
www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=173

This is a video which is worth watching right through its 1hr 22minutes. Its about the Irish 'NO' Vote and it completely exposes the lies and treason of our Prime minister and our MEPs and advisors. Please distribute this widely and then let us all get together to DEMAND A REFERENDUM on the Lisbon Trea(son)ty.

Section 3 at about 14 minutes is a must about the EU Court of Justice and how our civil and legal rights will be abolished. There will be no Habeas Corpus and everything I warned about in my article on Corpus Juris will come to pass. The European movement MUST be opposed at all costs.

'S Mise le meas
Niall.

Cheers Niall

Clare wrote:
Niall Ban wrote:
www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=173

This is a video which is worth watching right through its 1hr 22minutes. Its about the Irish 'NO' Vote and it completely exposes the lies and treason of our Prime minister and our MEPs and advisors. Please distribute this widely and then let us all get together to DEMAND A REFERENDUM on the Lisbon Trea(son)ty.

Section 3 at about 14 minutes is a must about the EU Court of Justice and how our civil and legal rights will be abolished. There will be no Habeas Corpus and everything I warned about in my article on Corpus Juris will come to pass. The European movement MUST be opposed at all costs.

'S Mise le meas
Niall.

Cheers Niall

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT WON'T WORK! <throws ornaments, plates and other breakable objects>

Clare wrote:

They need to clean up their act, particularly on the financial bit because the allegations of fraud within the EU are considerable. It is looking like a massive gravy train for certain MEPs who aren't even asked to provide receipts. We're funding that! Until they behave like a serious outfit I will not take them seriously myself. They don't deserve it.

Absolutely agree, I remember a few years ago the chief accountant in Brussels, a Ms Marta Andreasen , was sacked. Her crime? She refused to sign Commission accounts that were a licence for fraudsters to loot taxpayers’ money.
No matter that she was only doing her duty, officialdom in Brussels hates anyone rocking the boat, or upsetting the gravy train.
I don’t suppose that anyone will be surprised to learn that the Commissioner who was the prime mover in her dismissal was none other than Neil Kinnock, the supposed “fraud buster “ of the EU.
But as Ms Andreasen goes, officials linked to a £3million fraud are still at their desks.
I also think that the Euro parliament is equally as guilty by their silence. They know what is going on but have refused to take any action (that I’m aware off).They also don’t seem to show the slightest concern for public opinion.

You can read about Marta Andreasen on the following:-

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marta_Andreasen

Niall Ban wrote:


Section 3 at about 14 minutes is a must about the EU Court of Justice and how our civil and legal rights will be abolished. There will be no Habeas Corpus and everything I warned about in my article on Corpus Juris will come to pass. The European movement MUST be opposed at all costs.

'S Mise le meas
Niall.

Habeas Corpus does not exist in Scots Law as it is.

Good vid Niall. Thanks.

scunnert wrote:
Good vid Niall. Thanks.

It's a pity that his comments about the abolition of Habeas Corpus can't apply to Scotland. AS it is, Lisbon wouldn't affect the rule of Habeas Corpus in the rest of the UK.

It's called scaremongering. The anti-EU campaigners are well versed in it.

TLJ wrote:
scunnert wrote:
Good vid Niall. Thanks.

It's a pity that his comments about the abolition of Habeas Corpus can't apply to Scotland. AS it is, Lisbon wouldn't affect the rule of Habeas Corpus in the rest of the UK.

It's called scaremongering. The anti-EU campaigners are well versed in it.

T, now that isn't fair. We're not anti-EU, nor do I believe is Ireland. This is about more than that. I still say it is possible to function as independent countries with our own laws, taxation systems and so on without requiring an EU to have the authority to over-rule us. That just isn't on. Strong individual countries can only bring about a stronger EU but accountability is paramount. Rightly or wrongly Lisbon has raised fears about autonomy and this must be addressed obviously but elsewhere the EU has spectacularly failed to address its own shortcomings particularly in the area of finances. It needs to do so. Urgently.

Clare wrote:

T, now that isn't fair. We're not anti-EU, nor do I believe is Ireland.

You aren't; Niall most definitely is.

Don't tell me references to the EUSSR aren't to scare ? Don't tell me that references to Habeas Corpus isn't to scare - despite the fact we don't !

TLJ wrote:
Clare wrote:

T, now that isn't fair. We're not anti-EU, nor do I believe is Ireland.

You aren't; Niall most definitely is.

Don't tell me references to the EUSSR aren't to scare ? Don't tell me that references to Habeas Corpus isn't to scare - despite the fact we don't !

<pours TLJ a generous malt to calm him doon>

Is it true that the EU is the brainchild of the Bilderberg Group whose ultimate aim is the enslavement of all humanity?