I just logged on to the BBC website for readers comments on todays news about the Scottish Government pushing ahead with Local Income Tax.

newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sor...0903180320#paginator

The idea that Scotland is subsidised really is gaining a lot of momentum down south.

Spamming is verboten.

Either back up your claims with links or evidence, or piss off (to use a Scottish phrase, with which you may be familiar).

Oh well just wonder by the way how many of Scots decent there are in Greater London. I know there many many organisation for them in the city? Wonder how much London really costs us?

Why does any of that bother you?

Please explain.

"Either back up your claims with links or evidence, or piss off (to use a Scottish phrase, with which you may be familiar)."

I did provide a link. And I'm not spamming. No need to be so agressive. I'm just posting to start debate. Take it easy.

Good post from another website message board:

"One one item I agree with here we should start to get more serious about our impending independence and figure out all the options before us particularly the fiscal ones. This after all is one of the driving forces for independence that we can choose how best to run our country for the benefits of Scots first and foremost. To do this however ALL of the books need to be open so we can openly and freely know what our various options are. Like any other country on the planet hard compromises will need to be made, trade offs will need to happen - Scots above all else are realists and we are not expecting a land of milk and honey (despite Unionsts tellings us that is our dream), rather we just want to determine how to run our country for the best benefit of our own people. Also like any other country Scotland will determine a unique set of compromises which reflect our own aspirations and believes, rather than those of a wannabe world power. Looking at any one item in isolation even the prospect of an Oil Fund is fatally flawed without knowing all of the various figures and choices before us. With Westminster we already know they cannot be trusted to be open and honest to even let Scots know what our options are e.g. . The McCrone report deliberately and maliciously withheld basic economic information from us so we could not even weigh up our basic options. see - tinyurl.com/mcrone . UK Continental Shelf (Economc region). Callaghan went to extraordinary lengths to ensure that all the income from the North Sea headed directly south to the Treasury, ordering the designation of an entirely new economic region — the UK Continental Shelf (UKCS) see - tinyurl.com/6k5dyd . In the 2005 Great Deception Niall Aslen exposed more fraudulent accounting which was trying to hide the truth from Scots. see - tinyurl.com/biglies With the latest GERS (2007) more lies have been exposed and many of Niall corrections accepted. see - tinyurl.com/GERS2007 So if the Unionists want to truly give us free choice here open up all the books and all of the options so we know what our choices are, but no this won't happen with democracy British style. Figures will continue to be hidden and manipulated so our challenge will be harder, but we are up to that challenge. We also have positive thoughts and energy to look at different ways that Scotland can do better to invest and grow both economically and socially rather than the Unionist tack of talking us down continually and telling us why we can't be any better and how we should be so grateful for what we have already, but again we don't even know what is true and what is not as our overlords are proven liars and manipulators. They have already stated they will do anything and everything to preserve their rotting Empire and we should assume they will be plot against us until the bitter end. We need to take the initiative ourselves by any and all means to determine the choices before us. We must expose all of our fiscal choices e.g. . Our "investments" in the British Capital/South East Recent or planned investments are at least £168 billion - (see next post). So was our portion of these "investments", at least £13 billion, the best choice we could have made for Scots first and foremost ? . Our "investments" in the British world stage posturing. At least £200 billion - (see next post). So was our portion of these "investments", at least £17 billion the best choice we could have made for Scots first and foremost ? . Our "investments" in other areas of the British states mismanagement . Just a couple of examples are : . £31bn computer bill for new NHS system see tinyurl.com/53cbmn & tinyurl.com/555kho . Up to £110 billion wasted bailing out Northern Rock . BBC license fees "investment" when we can't even get our most popular sport free of charge and an independent report confirms massive "anglocentric" bias. see - tinyurl.com/6md9t5 Yep let's openly have all Scots weigh up the options before us on how best to run our own country, but we need to know all facts and figures not just some conveniently skewed partial pieces of the overall puzzle. Saor Alba"

This sort of mince has been peddled by Labour for years. "You're too poor to go it alone"..."you benefit financially from the Union": Should we be surprised that folk south of the border overheard them and believed it?

This has really bitten Labour in the arse. They have been disproved in saying that Scotland is subsidised, so they now look daft in their assertions. The furore created by the taboids (and some broadsheets) of the English press has got into full swing, so Labour wouldn't be popular in saying that Scotland is a net contributor to the treasury.

Ergo, whatever they say, they're buggered. I agree with Robin though, why such a big fuss? It isn't true, and those who would believe it would do so because they want to.

The same tabloids will squeal when independence is achieved and a true reflection of wealth becomes apparent...it sells papers, nothing more.

dws wrote:
Ergo, whatever they say, they're buggered. I agree with Robin though, why such a big fuss? It isn't true, and those who would believe it would do so because they want to.

The same tabloids will squeal when independence is achieved and a true reflection of wealth becomes apparent...it sells papers, nothing more.

True but this latest example in a long line of racist bigotry by our English cousins should not be allowed to pass without comment.

Its just another attempt by the English ruling elite to blame the state of their country on everyone else but themselves.

Mind you its one of the reasons I'm a fervent supporter of self-determination north of the border because for years we've blamed the English for our woes.

After independence it'll be interesting to see what bogey men (or women) come out of the closets to explain any shortfall between voter's expectations, politician's promises and the reality of our lives.

The Matt O'Conner standing for London Mayor was the Matt O'Conner from Fathers for Justice.

He will know my name. I have spoken to him in his role in Fathers for Justice

I had a certain amount of respect for his views as Chair of that organisation. I read a great deal of his work. I thought him a reasonably intelligent man. Looking at the above posters my view has changed drastically. I will forward his views to his supporters in Scotland, I have a feeling his support will diminish somewhat here in Scotland.

A little work on the internet could have educated him no matter what the media told him. I would have thought any person thinking themselves fit to stand as London Mayor would have taken the trouble to ensure he got his facts right. However, when a person is desperate for publicity or fame it may be that integrity flies out of the window.

I will ask the same question I ask when I hear this verbal diarrhea.

If we cost the rest of the U K so much why do they try so desperately to keep us when we so obviously want our independence?

Well News at Ten tonight, has decided to report on Alex's Salmonds plans for the replacement of the council tax and that parking charges will now stop at most Scottish hospitals. The reporter did finish with the line "In these economic times will Scots want to pay an additional 3p in the pound". The English do tend to get wound up by changes that the Scottish government make and of course the press and media like to play to this. It suits them to do so.

Hi Ricky. While I welcome any move to abolish the Council Tax set up I'm not convinced the proposals made by Swinney will work. I think they're very badly thought out.

Interesting to see Jamieson and the others clinging on to the whole absurd idea of making householders and owners pay for local services tho. When oh when are they going to realise that local services are not the sole responsibility of householders and recognise that we should all contribute to the pot?