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I'm sure the retired judge is a very worthy fellow but his views on carrying a concealed dagger are perverse. "…Sikhs carrying the Kirpan are exempt from prosecution under the offensive weapons act…" Well why? This illustrates yet again how those who profess a religious faith are granted exemptions to laws that the rest of have to observe. Many young men go to gaol every year because they are caught with a knife. Most protest that they had no intention of using it but that's no excuse in law. Being a baptised Sikh should not be accepted as a valid reason to be allowed to carry a knife in public.

Dearie me Lev. A knife is a weapon whether it has ceremonial or religious significance or not so I agree this decision is nuts.

Was there not some controversy some years ago about the Skean Dhu being potentially an offensive weapon too even if it was part of a national dress?

Clare wrote:
Was there not some controversy some years ago about the Skean Dhu being potentially an offensive weapon too even if it was part of a national dress?

There was indeed although I can't find a link to it. A friend of mine plays in a pipe band where they all had to get Skean Dhu handles attached to bits of bendy plastic that they stuck into their socks. You can buy "safety" models with no blades now.


Weirdly, Sikhs won't countenance a safety model of their Kirpan.

I also remember years ago being told when Police attended our school that the tailed steel comb could also be described as an offensive weapon.

It really is nuts that we can't have some common sense here especially when your link reveals that even children carry these things. When something is undoubtedly potentially dangerous you have to look at the item dispassionately and make a reasonable call. The judgement in this case is in no way reasonable.

When in Rome?

DoricMan wrote:
When in Rome?
You hit the nail on the head there DM! When I went to Saudi, I did not drink (except inplaces designated by law); in Israel, I didn't eat pig products etc etc. That's as it should be. If your religious beliefs are in conflict with the laws of a country, it's up to you to make a decision what is more important, your (adopted) home or your religion. It's wrong to expect a country to change it's laws to accomodate a few.

The kirpan is supposed to be a defensive, not an offensive weapon.

Surely the solution is for the authorities to insist that if Sikhs want to carry one they should blunt the blade, as apparently they do in California.

Some regulations allow the kirpan under certain restrictions; for example, rules in some Californian schools require that the kirpan be blunted and riveted into a sheath. This prevents any possible use of the kirpan as a weapon, but still allows it as a physical symbol of faith.

www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Kirpan

Apparently in this case the school did offer this compromise but the boy's parents refused. In that circumstance I don't agree with the retired judge that their views should prevail.

I'm surprised the school didn't get them on Health and Safety grounds! Look at all the safeguards we have now to avoid accidents in schools for heaven's sake. Yet its ok to have children of a particular religion carrying - whatever else you want to call them - blades. Who is liable here in the event of an accident? The school? The parents of the child?

The Carrying of Knives etc. (Scotland) Act 1993 made it a defence a person charged with an offence under it to prove that he had the knife with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

(c) as part of any national costume.

Clare wrote:
I'm surprised the school didn't get them on Health and Safety grounds! Look at all the safeguards we have now to avoid accidents in schools for heaven's sake. Yet its ok to have children of a particular religion carrying - whatever else you want to call them - blades. Who is liable here in the event of an accident? The school? The parents of the child?

There's nothing in the Health and Safety at Work etc Act says you can't carry a knife.......

I would say its common sense not to carry a knife